Computer Make: Home Built
300W PSU
K7VZA motherboard (onboard sound and 2 x COM, 1 x LPT and 2 x USB ports)
Processor: 850 MHz AMD Athlon (NOT overclocked)
Heavy Duty Sink Fan
ATI 3D Rage LT Pro Video Card
Memory: 256 MB
Screen Resolution: 1024 by 768


HARDWARE: Olivetti JP170 Printer, Memorex Twelve MAXX CD-RW, Creative PC-DVD Blaster 12x, Hayes V.92 PCI Modem.

Other Information:
Operating System: Windows 98 (SE 4.102222A)
Web Browser: Internet Explorer 5, Netcaptor
AOL 7.0, e-Trust Antivirus 5.3.7.1, ZoneAlarm Pro 2.6.357.


MY PROBLEM:

Very frequently, sometimes continually in the space of only minutes and sometimes after an hour or so the mouse pointer freezes as does the keyboard. CTRL-ALT-DEL does not work so I have to switch the computer off and back on again.

This can occur at anytime and has even even occurred when I was using Windows Explorer with no other programmes running and only explorer and systray running in the background! It has also frozen when running disk defragmenter and again only explorer and systray running in the background!

It also happens when on the internet and before the above happened I thought it might have had something to do with the number of windows open in Netcaptor or the number of pop-ups in AOL but as I say it has also happened with only the OS and Windows Explorer running.

Fearing a temparature problem I ran the computer with a room fan on full speed blowing into the case with the side removed but it crashed again. On boot up I have on a couple of occasions checked the BIOS and the CPU temp and found it to be 37degrees C (98F) and the System Temp to be 27degrees C (80F). As the lowest temp I can choose to shut down at is 60degrees C I am assuming temparature is not the problem.

Past attempts at running trouble free have included managing to surf the web for a while then I disconnected and using Windows Media Player I played a WAV track of Andrea Bocelli all the way through. I then selected a second WAV file and the system froze.

Freezing has also occurred during downloads of MP3 files from the web and during CD creating. Although this might suggest a memory problem I have tried 2 separate sticks of 256Mb PC133 memory but to no avail. I have tried both PC100 and PC133 settings in the BIOS.

Also in the BIOS Advanced Chipset Features the default setting for timing is 'SDRAM 8/10ns' and the other possible choices are Normal, Medium, Fast and Turbo. The computer has frozen when set to both default and Medium. It will not boot up when set to Normal.

Could it be just a question of getting the correct combination of BIOS settings? There are so many different possible combinations that would take a long time trying and be very difficult to record. Perhaps there is a website somwhere that list all the optimum settings for different combinations of CPU and memory? Or is that just wishful thinking?

I really would appreciate any help, thoughts, advice or suggetions anyone may have.

hope that you have better luck getting some help than I did. I also have 98SE and have the same problem, sometimes the system will lock up even off line, playing games, on line in the mail,reading or writing, and anyother random times. kept a log to see if there was some pattern, could not see any, placed a message here and at another site, no response. maybe this is a 98SE bug. anyway good luck

These questions are elementary, but since you didn't provide the info, here they are:

1. Have you run a full virus scan?
2. Are you using an AMD-approved power supply?
3. Did you set up your DUN using the AOL software?
4. Do you have a regular schedule of computer mauntenance that includes Defrag, Scandisk, Clean up TIF, Temp, Cookies, Recent files, clean the registry, etc?
5. Have you tried setting your BIOS to the defaults totally?
6. Have you tried resetting all you cards and connections inside and outside your computer case?
7. Are you using a UPS?

Well, I can give it a shot. Do you have V1.0 or V3.0 mobo? Have you updated the BIOS? It looks like there are lots of BIOS revisions since the board came out. Have you upgraded the VIA drivers? Have you run a temp check while the computer is running? It surely does sound like a temperature or PS problem? Is the power supply AMD approved?

This site has helped me a lot on 98SE with shutdown problems,and other problems as well.Hope it will help with the problems that both of you are having ,Tuff

http://www.aumha.org/a/shutdown.htm

I have had the same trouble in the past and I did two things to fix it. The trouble is I did them both at once so I am not sure which it was that fixed it. My system would lock up, or sometimes, if I was in a graphics editor, like Paint Shop Pro, it would drop me back to my desktop without warning.

The first was get new ram .... which you said you have already tried.

The second was set my swap file size as follows.

Control Panel/Systems/Device Manager/Performance tab/Virtual Memory... Select 'Let me specify my own virtual memory settings' and set the minimum and maximum size the same.
Your next question would be what size, my next answer would be it depends... on how much free space you have on your hard drive. If you have a lot of space, set it to up to 512MB, if you don't have as much try 256MB. If you run a lot of apps requiring working with large files 256MB may not be enough. 512MB should be all you'll ever need.
The reason for doing this is that once you defrag your HD and then set this fixed swap file, you will always have this area of contiguous HD space to use. Furthermore you will not have the overhead of Windows setting up and managing your swap file.
One more thing you should do is edit system.ini <386Enh> section to add a line:
ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1
This will avoid using the swap file until all RAM is used. You can edit this easily by Start/Run msconfig, and select the system.ini tab.

This might not help you, but it is easy to do, and easy to change back if it doesn't help. By the way, I set mine to 256MB


Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright, until they speak

  

Matrix .... please let us know if any of our suggestuons helped


Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright, until they speak

  

First of all thank you to all who replied.

Nedrun: someone has mentioned something I never thought of but they had a mouse that caused similar intermittent problems. Even though the mouse appeared to be functioning correctly they replaced it and cured their problem. I am going to get a new mouse...I'll try anything now!

dubber: yes to Qs 1-6 and No to Q 7

HowardL I have Version 1.1g so flashed the BIOS with 'vza11g.BIN'. Yes I did upgrade the VIA drivers. Temparatures seem ok although do not know how to check them other than through the BIOS. Having sadi that as stated above have tried running with side off case and room fan blowing full speed into case.

Tuff: Sorry! Can't comment because the url you give gives the error message 'Cannot find Server'site

seracca: Don't think it is the RAM at least hope not. Did have swapfile on J:\ Drive (4.75Gb) set to max of 1024Mb but just in case the swapfile can be too big will try your suggestion of 512Mb and will add the system.ini edit.

Try this.

Right click on Desktop, choose Properties/Settings/Advanced/Performance and move the Hardware Acceleration slider back a notch at a time to see if that clears the problem.
If so, look for new drivers for your video card.

NytOwl

matrix,

It may not be possible for you, but I would dump AOL totally.

Again, if possible, I would set up the DUN connection manually and not use the ISP's software.

Using a UPS will protect your computer if you have a "blackout". It will give you time for a normal shutdown. It will also protect your computer from fluctuations(over and under voltages) in electricity.

seracca: did as you suggested but still had a freeze

NytOwl: Will try as you suggest but have in the past moved slider all way to left but still had a freeze.

Have changed mouse (just in case that was faulty) and cleaned connections at base of memory stick with a pencil rubber. Again without success....I've just had another freeze!!!!!

Can you uninstall Media player temporarily?
And what about turning off anything unnecessary in the Startup Tab list of the System Configuration Utility? (Start/Run/msconfig)
If that clears the problem, turn things back on a few at a time and test run til the problem reappears, to locate the program causing the trouble.

NytOwl

Don't see your HDD(s) listed.

How much free Hdd space do you have?

NytOwl

Have been running nothing but 'explorer' and 'systray' in background because as soon as problem began I used 'msconfig' to disable anything else from running in the background.

I have a 40Gb Hard disk partitioned as follows:-
C:\ 1.94Gb containing Windows Folder and 690Mb free space
D:\ 4.87Gb containing all programs and 4.22Gb free space
E:\ 4.87Gb containing all document files and 4.43Gb free space
F:\ 4.87Gb all free space
G:\ 4.87Gb all free space
H:\ 4.87Gb containing audio files and 2.04Gb free space
I:\ 4.87Gb containing Backup files and 2.09Gb free space
J:\ 4.87Gb containing only the swapfile with 4.37Gb free space (swapfile is set to 512Mb minimum and maximum (although have also tried 1024Mb min and max as well as allowing Windows to handle automatically)
K:\ 1.10Gb used for temp files and 1.07Gb free space

That means just over 28Gb of free space!

Will try to uninstall Media player and real player to see if it makes any difference but just this afternoon computer froze just after I had completed booting up and clicked on START. The menu opened and then the computer froze, nothing running except 'systray', 'explorer' and Windows 98SE?!

Whew!!

If uninstalling Media player and Real Player have no effect, I'd disconnect the CD-RW and DVD drives next.

Eventually one of these experiments will produce a clue to the problem.

NytOwl

The most common cause of mouse cursor freezes are faulty video drivers. See if you can find later drivers for your video card.

Shelly

NytOwl - I disconnected both CD-RW and DVD-ROM and the computer froze practically immediately but I'm going to have another session just to make sure it wasn't just some remnant in the RAM and will keep you informed.

Shelly : have downloaded the latest drivers and installed them but I agree I did at one point think it may be a video drivers problem but like I said I had done that. I will howver download and re-install again because I am now out of ideas and at the end of my tether so will walk away for now and get a good nights slepp before I launch this thing out of the window.

Tomorrow's another day Watch this (very frustrated) space!

Ok, what about the mouse, is it using standard drivers or one of those bloatware programs that can be a source of trouble?

Also, have you checked for duplicate hardware listings in Device Manager while booted up in Safe mode?
(Especially for the mouse, video card)

NytOwl

The further adventures of matrix :-

Ran computer with DVD-ROM and CD-RW disconnected but it still froze after a while. Have now reconnected CD and DVD but this time instead of both on one IDE the CD-RW is the Secondary Master with the DVD as the Primary Slave with the Hard Disk as the Primary Master.

Had already checked hardware list and can confirm no duplicate entrie or conflicts.

I do not know but just in case it is bloatwareHave I have uninstalled the Genius Netscroll+ drivers. I am still using the Netscroll Mouse. Not sure if the scrolling wheel should still work if it's drivers were properly uninstalled but it does still work.

Will now go back online and ensure I have the latest video drivers and see if I stay up and running while I do it.

Exciting isn't it?

Here's something to try I saw somewhere that may provide a tool to work with.

When you first boot up open a Windows Explorer (not IE), select the Help button/About Windows and note the percentage of System Resources showing in the lower right.

This figure should be above 80% initially from what I've been told.

The Resource Meter utility will do this too.

NytOwl

Booted up, logged on to web, went to PC911 site, as I read latest post from NytOwl computer froze.

Rebooted and saw System Resources showed 92% free with 74% free whilst dialling for an internet conncetion.

65% free whilst running AOL, Netcaptor and Windows Explorer. Whilst online am of surfing now to get video drivers for Rage LT Pro AGP 2X. Now there's a point, I seem to remember somewhere in the BIOs an entry for 'AGP Aperture' being set at '4X'. Wonder if it should be '2X'. Will check that next time I boot up!

Via AGP info here...

http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/faqagp.html .

NytOwl

Moved Edit message to new post 23.

Those are two different settings. 2X or 4X refers to an AGP version which must be set to match what your video card supports. The Aperature setting has to do with memory. A safe setting for Aperture is 64.

Shelly

(This message was originally the edit part of post 21)

I see you replied to HowardL that the revision # of your board is 1.1g and that you have flashed with bios vza11g.zip V1.1g (153KB)
Release Date: 12/07/2000.

Can you verify the revision number of your motherboard again?
I don't think 1.1g is correct and this is very important.
You should see Rev. 1.X or Rev. 3.X written just below the K7VZA you'll see written between the two PCI slots closest to the AGP slot.
Look at the red circle here...
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/bios.htm .

Also, have you always had this problem since the sytem was built?

NytOwl

matrix latest:

As more than one person mentioned video drivers and I myself suspected them I have now uninstalled all VIA drivers. The monitor still works and the screen quality and speed seems no different and presumably the video card is now relying on the generic drivers which come as a part of Windows 98SE.

Whilst encouraging, in that I managed to surf the web and ICQ with friends for several hours tonight (approximately three) it still froze in the end despite the lack of any high memory load. But encouraging nevertheless.

I am sure my motherboard is version 1.0 as I made a point of recording all such details prior to installing each piece of hardware. SiSoft Sandra is telling me it is version 1.1g or is that because I have flashed it now and if so how do I find out the true version and why does NytOwl suspect it is NOT 1.1g?

I will look inside the case tomorrow to see if it's on the motherboard other than just ver 1.0.

No it has not always had this fault but I cannot remeber what I did that could have triggered it. I do believe that I should maybe have adhered to the concept of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I have tried hard to remember the last thing I did before the problem arose but all I can remember is that I was upgrading drivers because that's what's best (??????) except maybe it wasn't! And I cannot remember if I flashed the BIOS to try and cure the problem or if I flashed it before the problem arose?

Have to confess to struggling to understand the reason and purpose of AGP but as I have uninstalled the drivers I presume this is now academic.

As I froze a few minutes ago I have rebooted and have now disabled AGP 4X Mode in the Advanced Chipset Features of the BIOS and if it freezes again I will reduce the AGP Aperture size to 32M from the 64M it has always defaulted to but that will be tomorrow now.

Just as an afterthought, if I do correctly identify my BIOS version does anyone know how I can restore the original or where I can download it from?

>I will look inside the case tomorrow to see if it's on the motherboard other than just ver 1.0.<

That's the best way I know of.

As I posted...
You should see Rev. 1.X or Rev. 3.X written just below the K7VZA you'll see written between the two PCI slots closest to the AGP slot.
Look at the red circle here...
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/bios.htm .

>Just as an afterthought, if I do correctly identify my BIOS version does anyone know how I can restore the original or where I can download it from?<

I'll post back about that.

NytOwl

Ok, let's try to clear up some confusion about the motherboard revision # and the bios version #.
They're two different things.
Your motherboard has a revision # of Rev. 1.0 or Rev. 3.0 that's written just below the K7VZA you'll see written between the two PCI slots closest to the AGP slot.
This revision number doesn't change when the bios is updated but the bios version # does.

The 1.1g Sandra is showing is the bios version # which shows the current bios installed is V1.1g (153KB)Release Date: 12/07/2000 but the wrong flasher may have been used to install it and created a problem.

ECS, the manufacturer of your Mbrd has two different flashers for the ECS K7VZA depending on which chipset is on the Mbrd.

If you have a Rev. 1.0 Mbrd, it can have either a VIA® VT8363 & VT82C686A Chipset or a VIA® VT8363/8363A & VT82C686A/B Chipset .
In order to find out which one you have we need the bios string information because it has the chipset I.D. in it.
----------------
To find BIOS information:

From a powered-off state, turn on your computer.
While the memory count is on the screen, press the PAUSE/BREAK key one time.
On most computers, PAUSE/BREAK stops the screen from changing so the bios info can be written down.
Note that the memory count may continue on some computers.
It is very important to note the bios string information that is at the bottom left of the screen.

Near the upper left of the screen you'll see something like this:

AWARD Modular BIOS version 4.51pg Energy Star Alliance
PnP BIOS Version 1.0a Release 06/06/1996/L

At the bottom left of the same screen is the bios string itself .
(here are three examples)

2A5LEF09C-00
06/17/96-001430vx-2a59HtBC-00
03/13/2001-8363-686B-MA-AV363C-00
-------------------------

So what we need right now is the motherboard revision #, K7VZA Rev. 1.0 or K7VZA Rev. 3.0 and the Award bios string from the lower left of the first bootup screen.

Don't worry about reverting back to the original bios yet.

NytOwl

Hello again NytOwl

Okay. Have looked at motherboard again and between PCI slots 3 and 4 I can see this.... K7VZA REV 1.0

On boot up the text in the bottom left of the screen reads:-
12/06/2000 - 8363 - 686A - K7VZAC - 00

Excellent! The 8363 - 686A part of your bios string shows your Mbrd has the VIA® VT8363 & VT82C686A Chipset which uses the awd77.zip V7.7 (16.4KB) flash utility from ...
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/flash.htm .

Your current bios download (vza11g.zip V1.1g (153KB) Release Date: 12/07/2000) is found here...
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/k7vza.htm .
There is one newer bios version on that same page (vza12e.exe V1.2e (183KB) Release Date: 07/31/2001) that I would update to if it comes to having to flash again.

Ok, at this point, I would try clearing the cmos and loading the setup defaults.

Open bios setup and write down the settings in all the screens so you can re-enter them after loading the setup defaults.

While doing this disable the Virus Warning option and the Firmware Write Protect option in Advanced BIOS features.

Save and Exit bios setup, power off, and unplug the power cord.
Your Mbrd has a BIOS protection jumper (JP5) that must be checked to be sure it not set to write protect the bios.

JP5's default setting is Disable ( pins 1 and 2 closed) so check to be sure it's disabled .
( P.14 in your Mbrd manual shows the location of JP5 and JP1 which is also involved in this procedure. )

Locate JP1 and discharge the cmos for 10 seconds by swapping the jumper from it's default position on pins 1 and 2 over to pins 2 and 3.

Move JP1 back over pins 1 and 2, and plug the power cord in.
Power on, enter bios settings and load the setup defaults, Save and Exit.

You may see a message saying BIOS ROM CheckSum Error before you enter the bios setup but loading the setup defaults and rebooting is supposed to correct that.

After Windows boots up see if your computer will still lockup using the setup defaults, if not you can reboot and load Optimal Settings to see how that works.

The prior settings you wrote down can be re-entered as long as you know the right choices were made.

If you have been running Bios protection jumper JP5 with bios protection disabled I would continue to leave it that way.

I've seen accounts of some users that have tried to flash with BIOS protection enabled and killed their Mbrd because they forgot about or didn't know about having a Bios protection jumper.
----------------

NytOwl

NytOwl

Have downloaded the files but it will be Sunday before I get a chance to flash the BIOS again and I've printed your instructions so I'll let you know how it goes

Thanks

NytOwl

I downloaded awd77.zip (which extracted to awd77.exe) and vza12e.exe and copied them both to floppy disk.

I did get a chance to flash the BIOS before going out. I did exactly as you said but: At the A:\ prompt I typed AWD77.EXE and pressed enter.

A box appeared headed "Flash Memory Writer V7.7" and beneath that appeared my BIOS details and below that the line "Flash Type WINBOND 49F002U.5v.

On the line where it asks for "File Name to Program" I assume the name of the downloaded file goes in there so I typed in VZA12E. It then allowed me to backup my BIOS but at the bottom where it says "Error message" the words "Source file not found" were flashing.

If I type in VZA12E.EXE at "File Name to Program" I get the error message "It is not an Award BIOS"?

Am I doing it right??

Sorry you misunderstood post 29, I wanted you to reset the existing bios to see if that stops the lockup problem without having to reflash the bios.

For now, just try clearing the cmos and loading the setup defaults first then load Optimal Settings and see what the result is.

The flash instructions at ECS have left out the "clear cmos" step at the end which may be a mistake.
Usually flash instructions say to clear the cmos after flashing so the new bios instructions can replace the previous set.

If the cmos wasn't cleared when the last bios update was done, it could have created a problem which is causing the lockups.

NytOwl

The "Source file not found" error occurred because ECS changed the last bios (vza12e.exe, note the .exe) for your Mbrd to a zip file that has to be unzipped in Windows to create the .BIN file ( vza12e.BIN ) you needed for the flash.

Because I'm concerned you may try to flash the bios again, I went ahead and wrote the following guide for you.
------------

Flash procedure for ECS K7VZA REV 1.0 with VIA® VT8363 & VT82C686A Chipset using Windows 98SE.
(Flash Type WINBOND 49F002U.5v ; Note!! Do not use any flasher for the Rev. 3.0 Mbrd, they're 3.3volt.)
------------------
Preparing the Boot Floppy:
Use a new Floppy and full format it. Don't use one that has defects after formatting.

After the full format, go back to the Format screen and put a check in "Copy system files only" and click Ok.

Close Format, display the contents of the floppy in Windows Explorer and delete the drivespace.bin file leaving COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, and MSDOS.SYS .

Next the downloaded files need to be extracted directly to the floppy while in Windows.
It's best to disable your antivirus and not to copy or cut/paste the extracted files to the floppy.

After extracting the downloaded files awd77.zip and vza12e.exe to the floppy, the contents of the floppy should be Awd77.exe, COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, and vza12e.BIN.

This may seem like a lot of unnecessary things to do but believe me you cannot do too much to avoid a bad flash.

Shut down your computer and wait about 15 seconds then enter bios setup when you restart.

Write down the settings in all the bios screens so you can re-enter them after loading the setup defaults.

While doing this disable the Virus Warning option and the Firmware Write Protect option in Advanced BIOS features.

Save and Exit bios setup and power off .

Your Mbrd has a BIOS protection jumper (JP5) that must be checked to be sure it not set to write protect the bios.

JP5's default setting is Disable ( pins 1 and 2 closed) so check to be sure it's disabled .
( P.14 in your Mbrd manual shows the location of JP5 and JP1 which is also involved in this procedure. )

Boot up on your Flash floppy, and type dir at the A:\> prompt and press Enter to display the contents of the floppy as Dos shows them.

To open the Flash program look at the A:\ directory and you should see AWD77 EXE , type that in at the A:\> prompt and press Enter.

Follow the instructions as you did before to save a copy of the existing bios and enter the .bin file ( VZA12E.BIN ) when it's called for.
Always type the entries exactly as Dos displays them when you did the dir of the flash floppy.

While the program is running, DO NOT power down or do anything but wait.
A message should appear saying whether the flash is successful or not.

IF IT'S NOT SUCCESSFUL, NEVER POWER DOWN OR REBOOT YOUR SYSTEM, BUT TRY IT AGAIN WITH VZA12E.BIN or the saved copy of the old bios (oldbios.bin ).

When the flash is successful, exit the flash program if there's a way, remove the floppy, power off, and unplug the power cord.

Locate JP1 and discharge the cmos for 10 seconds by swapping the jumper from it's default position on pins 1 and 2 over to pins 2 and 3 to allow the new bios instructions to take effect upon reboot.

Move JP1 back over pins 1 and 2, and plug the power cord in.
Power on, enter bios settings and load the setup defaults, set the clock, Save and Exit.
The clock can be easier to set when you're back in windows if you wish.

You may see a message saying BIOS ROM CheckSum Error before you enter the bios setup but loading the setup defaults and rebooting is supposed to correct that.

After Windows boots up see if your computer will still lockup using the setup defaults, if not you can reboot and load Optimal Settings to see how that works.

The prior settings you wrote down can be re-entered as long as you know the right choices were made.

If you have been running Bios protection jumper JP5 with bios protection disabled I would continue to leave it that way.

You also have to decide how you want to leave the Firmware Write Protect option in Advanced BIOS features.
------------

NytOwl

I am now on a borrowed lapto

As I had flashed the BIOS before I thought it a reasonable option to flash again in and attempt to at least ensure I had a properly flashed and correctly working BIOS.

Followed your instructions and happily this time it seemed to do everything correctly by running the upgrade utility and allowing me to save a backup and exit the program using F10.

Sadly when I switched the computer on all that happened was I heard the fans power up but that was immediately followed by a long continuous beep and then the computer powered off. The screen remains black and I cannot even get to the BIOS or boot from the floppy to restore the old BIOS file or get to an A:\prompt?

Have I killed the BIOS or am I just hysterical:-)

Is the JP1 jumper back over pins 1 and 2 ?
----------
Locate JP1 and discharge the cmos for 10 seconds by swapping the jumper from it's default position on pins 1 and 2 over to pins 2 and 3 to allow the new bios instructions to take effect upon reboot.

Move JP1 back over pins 1 and 2, and plug the power cord in.
----------

NytOwl

Edit: The best thing to do now is don't panic, that won't help.

Try to reset the CMOS again by removing the CMOS battery (it's a disc battery, check your manual) for at least 2 minutes this time and placing the JP1 jumper over pins 2 and three to completely wipe the old instructions.
Then put JP1 back on pins 1 and 2, replace the battery and try to boot up.
If it boots load Setup defaults.

Meanwhile, I'll look for other things to try, post back as soon as you try a fix.

Did as you suggested removing the battery for 3 minutes but just the same ie switch on, long continuous beep and switches itself off.

A long continuous beep is usually caused by a Ram problem.

Try removing the ram, polish the contact strips with a clean pencil eraser and try one stick at a time if the Mbrd will run with one stick.
Avoid touching the chips and contact strips with your fingers and make sure the sticks seat all the way down.

More questions...What's the brand/speed/type etc. of the memory you're using?

Does your Mbrd have onboard video?

NytOwl

As far as I am aware the mobo does not have on board video but I have an AGP graphics card (see 1st post).

I have 2 sticks of memory and have tried both separately with the same result, ie switch on, long continuous beep and it switches itself off.

The original stick is Apacer 256Mb UNB PC133 CL3 and the 2nd is
TwinMOS PC133 256Mb SD/CL3

I have not tried both sticks together because I do not know if they are compatible and in any case I believe Windows 98SE does not handle anything more than 384Mb of RAM very well

The memory your using isn't the right speed and may have other discrepancies, you should be using 168 pin 3.3v unbuffered PC100 DIMMs.

Right now let's see if we can install the previous bios to get your system back.
This will require changing the .bin file and adding an Autoexec.bat file to the flash floppy.
You did make the special flash floppy right?

Will post back with the new instructions for the floppy.

NytOwl

Hi NytOwl

Yes I made the special flash floppy but I don't see what use it is if I can't boot up let alone get to an A:\ prompt.

With regard to the memory I have always had the BIOS set to PC100 if that makes any difference.

The flash floppy will now be used in a different manner to attempt to recover the previous bios.

Don't worry about the memory for the moment except to install one stick in the slot closest to the CPU (slot 1).

Now unplug the power to the CD-RW, PC-DVD drives and case fans if you have any. Don't unplug the CPU fan.
We're trying to boost the power available for the memory and bios.

Try booting again to see what happens.

If it still won't boot I need you to download a copy of the bios you were running on.
Return here...
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/download/k7vza.htm and download a copy of vza11g.zip V1.1g (153KB) Release Date: 12/07/2000.

BTW, what OS is on the borrowed computer, you need to be using W98SE if possible for working on the floppy.

Load the floppy in the borrowed computer A drive and delete the vza12e.bin file.
Then extract vza11g.zip to the floppy so you have a new copy of vza11g.bin replacing the deleted vza12e.bin file.

By that time I should be able to post back about the autoexec.bat file that's required too.

NytOwl

Making the autoexec.bat file:

Put the flash floppy in the A drive.

Open Notepad and type in...a:\Awd77.exe_vza11g.BIN_/py_/Sb_/sn_/cc_/cp_/cd putting a space where you see the _s so the entry looks like this...
a:\Awd77.exe vza11g.BIN /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd .

Be sure you have all the spaces where they should be.

Click File/Save As in the Notepad toolbar and name the file "autoexec.bat" in the File Name slot without the "s.

Drop down the Save In menu in the Save As window that appears, select the A drive and Save.

The Flash floppy now has 6 files... autoexec.bat, Awd77.exe, COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, and vza11g.BIN.

Boot the ECS K7VZA system from this modified flash floppy.

The utility should run according to the line in AUTOEXEC.BAT but without displaying anything on the screen.
The green activity light on the front of the A drive will be on while the utility is running.
This can take 10 minutes so be patient, when the green light goes out, power down, remove the floppy and reboot in about 15 seconds.

NytOwl

Edit: When the green light goes out, I'd wait another 5 minutes to give the program plenty of time to finish.

Have just got in from work and will try later. However, if unplugging the DVD and CD does not get the computer to boot up I will not be able to get to the A:\ with the new flash floppy.

Will keep you posted

Matrix,

Please read posts 42 and 43 carefully and modify the flash floppy accordingly.

Do not worry about accessing the A drive, you will not be able to see anything on your monitor because your video card will not be working while running this recovery utility.

With the previously mentioned items disconnected, put the modified floppy in the A drive, power on and watch the A drive green light for activity.

NytOwl

Sorry but even though have followed your instructions to the letter the same has happened again ie switched on, long continuous beep and then computer switches itself off!

Both CD and DVD disconnected, one stick of RAM in slot nearest CPU and flash boot disk with the files you mentioned but as I suspected the boot up sequence is not getting anywhere near reading the floppy disk.

I can hear the psu and fan power up but that beeps starts within 2 seconds of that and the computer switches itself off within 3 seconds of the beep starting.

We need to change the line in the autoexec.bat file now and try again.
Put the flash floppy in the borrowed computer A drive, BTW, what's the OS of this computer?

Open Notepad and click File/Open, drop down the menu of the Look In window in the Open screen, select the A:\ drive and Open.

With the A:\ drive showing in the Look In window, drop down the Files of Type menu and select All Files.

When the contents of the flash floppy appear in the main window of the Open screen, select the autoexec.bat file and Open.

This displays the a:\Awd77.exe vza11g.BIN /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd line.

Highlight and delete the a:\Awd77.exe part of the line only and replace it with AWARDFLASH .

Be sure to put a space between AWARDFLASH and vza11g.BIN.

Now add /R to the end of the line putting a space between /cd and /R.

The new line will look like this...AWARDFLASH vza11g.BIN /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd /R .

Be sure there's no space to the left of AWARDFLASH in the upper left corner of the Notepad window.

Click File/Save, File/Exit and you're done.

Put the flash floppy back in the ECS computer,power on and see if the floppy lights up now.

Here's an article explaining this recovery procedure except a couple of statements don't apply to your system. The part we're using is Automatic Recovery beginning on page 2.
-----------
BIOS Recovery Guide - Page 1/3
Guide Date: July 18, 2001
Guide By: Robert Richmond
Page 1: http://sysopt.earthweb.com/articles/recoverbios/index.html
Page 2: http://sysopt.earthweb.com/articles/recoverbios/index2.html (Automatic Recovery)
Page 3: http://sysopt.earthweb.com/articles/recoverbios/index3.html (Automatic Recovery (con't.)
-----------
The article says...Remove all peripherals and devices except the ISA video, floppy, and keyboard; but you don't have an ISA video card.

If you have no success using the modified autoexec.bat file, give it one last try with everything removed/disconnected from the Mbrd except the CPU/fan, floppy, keyboard and the one stick of memory.

(Ignore this) After using Windows to build the boot disk, it is recommended to delete or rename both the config.sys and autoexec.bat files found in the disk's primary directory path.

NytOwl

What I meant where I said "(Ignore this)" is not to use a Windows Startup floppy that has a config.sys and autoexec.bat etc. for a flash floppy.

Hi there, sorry to bud in at such a late date but l have read your posts with great interest as l to am suffering the same fate, l'm sorry to hear you crashed your mother board l was hoping you would have work out the problem, l hope you get it working again, my MB is the K7S5A, and they have change the mother board with a new one, the problem is not as bad but it seems happen when l play with my flight simulator, and l am convinced the it is something to do with the graphics, as you probably can tell l still have a lot to learn about computers, but l was wondering what graphics driver you were useing, l have the Nidiva Geforce2 MX 100/200, its probably nothing but you seem to have tried everything with no success, l'm virtually just thinking out allowd, l have read that site about rebooting the Bios, good luck l hope it works for you.

Hi NytOwl and hello zappa

NytOwl will try as you suggest and thanks for the URLs.

Zappa, my graphics card is a Rage LT Pro 2x AGP and the drivers are from the CD-ROM that came packaged with it. The CD title is "International Installation CD" and has the words 'Grapgics by Rage ATI', the software release number is 104 and there is also a number ie 180-G01071-104 but I do not know what they mean.

Hope that's some help and am now off to try and raise a mobo from the dead

Well I have removed the modem and graphics cards and unplugged the mouse leaving one stick of memory and the CPU and fan.

Same again, switched on, continuous beep for about 3 seconds then computer switches itself off.

What I don't understand is why or how does the computer switch itself off?

Also, is it not the BIOS that loads the floppy drive and must it not do so before it can be used? And if this is the case a floppy boot disk will never work because the floppy drive cannot be loaded or whatever the word is.

I have read the recover the BIOS article but does that not refer to a partially lost BIOS where access CAN be gained to the floppy drive so a new BIOS can be written/copied or whatever the terminology is.

I really do not want to buy another but does this mobo need a funeral??

>does that not refer to a partially lost BIOS<

There's a part of the bios called the Boot Block that's supposed to be protected from flash corruption and can be used to recovery from a failed flash.

Getting a new Mbrd is probably the best option at this point.

After reading the ECS poll http://www.amdmb.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68228 and other information about your ECS K7VZA Rev.1.0 Mbrd I would get another board because of the lockup issues alone.

One main thing I don't like about the K7VZA type boards is the CPU Auto Configuration.
There's no way to manually setup the CPU to see if there's a problem with the Auto Configuration of CPU voltage/frequency settings.

Anyway, think about finding a board that can use the CPU and memory you already have.

BTW, one more thing to try is re-seating the CPU.

Also, we need to know exactly which Athlon CPU you have, any numbers etc. from the chip itself would be great.

NytOwl

NytOwl

I will try reseating the CPU and will note any numbers at the same time but it does look like I need a new mobo.

My only concern as you rightly point out is to make sure I get a board suitable for the CPU and cards I have. I obviously didn't make too good a choice the first time even with the 'advice' from A2Z who sold me the parts knowing they were all going into the one computer.

Anyway thank you for all your help, it is most appreciated and I hope zappa sorts his with a lot more ease.

>Anyway thank you for all your help<

You're most welcome, but this isn't over til you're back up and running ok.

The memory you have could still be a problem because the long beep is a symptom of bad memory or failure of the bios to recognize it.

Substitution with a known good stick, testing your memory in another computer, or having your memory tested at a shop are options.

You really need to know if your memory is good if it may be used on another board anyway.

A good way to get feedback about the lockups is to search the forum over at amdmb by entering K7VZA .
Look for Rev. 1.0 incidents especially.

http://www.amdmb.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=24

Don't forget the Athlon I.D. info.

NytOwl

Here's an issue I would ask A2Z about.

At the bottom of the processor support chart here...

http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs.com.tw/support/faq/table-K7.htm

there's a note for the REV. 1.0 that says "p.s. K7VZA/M PCB 1.X just support FSB at 100MHz, because KT133 spec. limitation."

This board was advertised as supporting Athlons up to 1.2G and 133 ram but now they say only 100 ram is supported and I suppose you paid more for 133 ram when you bought the package.

They may have an exchange policy for a Mbrd that turned out to not be as advertised.

NytOwl

Edit: Fixed link.

Hi, zappa,

Glad to see your input, looks like no one else here at PC911 has any experience with an ECS problem like matrix.

Anyway, you and matrix can find a lot of ECS user feedback here...

http://www.amdmb.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=24

and especially here...

http://www.amdmb.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68228 .

The recovery article is mistaken where it says /R reboots the system.

According to the switches Help file in awd7.7.exe itself /R resets the bios.

Here's the switches Help file.
-------------
Awdflash 7.7 (C) Award Software 2000 All Rights Reserved

Usage: AWDFLASH FileName1 FileName2 /<sw>...
FileName1 : New Bios Name For Flash Programming
FileName2 : BIOS File For Backing-up the Original BIOS
<Switches>
?: Show Help Messages
py: Program Flash Memory
pn: No Flash Programming
sy: Backup Original BIOS To Disk File
sn: No Original BIOS Backup
Sb: Skip BootBlock Programming
cp: Clear PnP (ESCD) Data After Programming
cd: Clear DMI Data After Programming
sd: Save DMI Data To File
cc: Clear CMOS Data After Programming
R: RESET System After Programming
Tiny: Occupy lesser memory
E: Return to DOS When Programming is done
F: Use Flash Routines in Original BIOS For Flash Programming
LD: Destroy CMOS Checksum And No System Halt For First Reboot
After Programming
cksXXXX: Compare Binfile Checksum with XXXX
cks: Show update Binfile checksum

Example: AWDFLASH 2a59i000.bin /py /sn /cd /cp / cks2635
------------
As posted above, our current autoexec.bat line is...AWARDFLASH
vza11g.BIN /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd /R .

NytOwl

I have been around to other forums and though it doesn't seem to be a common problem there are a few people with it, and there doesn't seem to be a solution to it except to get and new mobo, l wish now that l took the time to learn a bit more about building a system, l still dont know what most of the jargen means but l have learn a hell of a lot in the last 2 months, all these abbreviations have me stumped at the moment, hopefully in about 6 months l understand a few of them, but l am learning very quickly, l think l try for an Abit mobo, but now to try and find one that will match the parts that l have. thanks for you help, and matrix, l would like to know the out come, did you get the mobo running again or will there be a funeral.

Best of luck to you whatever way you went.

zappa

>l think l try for an Abit mobo, but now to try and find one that will match the parts that l have.<

Zappa, start a new message thread in this forum, list the your parts and ask for help picking out another motherboard.

You should find some good feedback here.

NytOwl

matrix, here is a site that may be of help to you, it was sent to me by NytOwl, l have looked at it and it may be worth a try, anything is really at this stage ay.

http://www.amdmb.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94374

Good luck and l'm still interested to find out how you went.

zappa

Thanks for the info zappa and will take a look. I am working away from home for a couple of weeks now but will take a look before I get my new mobo.

Hey matrix, if your still around l'm pretty sure it's to do with the heat, mine works fine around 45 to 48 degrees but when it gets to 52 it freeze's up when l try to play with the simulator, unfortunately l live in the tropics, and dont have a air con, so l have to wait till the weather cools down a bit.

How is it going with you, did you get yours working again.

zappa

Hi zappa

Been working away from home but back home next weekend when I hope my new motherboard will be waiting for me. I have also taken the precaution of buying another stick of 256Mb RAM with the motherboard just to ensure compatability.

I don't believe heat was my problem and unlike you I live in the cold wet U I really do not know what my problem was but I have a gut feeling I may have destroyed the BIOS by flashing it incorrectly. As I said in a previous message I cannot remember if I flashed to try and cure the problem I had or if I flashed just because I felt I should upgrade and then the problem started!

As you can tell from the number of replies in this thread, I have had a lot of help and advice, especially from NytOwl which was most helpful in the sense that it was supportive that someone was patient enough to try and help but I have to admit that where the BIOS is involved I found a lot of what appeared to me to be contradictory information.

The ECS site did not, in my opinion, make it very clear at all which upgrade was the correct version for my motherboard despite e-mailing them direct and asking the question.

I hope my new motherboard and RAM get me up and running and if so, I have no intention of ever flashing a BIOS again.......honest!

Hi matrix, to tell you the truth l am scared to death of have to flash the bios, but l will do it for the simple reason that l want to learn how to, and l agree, the ECS mob are useless, l tried to email them as well and never had a reply, and there is not enough info on there site.

I can tell you now l should have taken the time to find out in the first place about all this stuff instead of just going in to the shop and getting them to recomend something for me.

I will never buy another ECS mother board, when l rebooted tonight l lost my graphics driver, why l dont know, l done nothing different and the other night l got a fatal error and l am still trying to find out how to fix some things.

This all may be my fault as l still dont know what l am doing, but l am learning quickly, l fixed the problem myself, last month l would not have even know what caused it.

I am going for a Abit mobo, but l am not rushing into it, l am taking the time to find out all about it, and hopefully l can use all the parts of this one.

Well lets know how the new board goes, and here's a site you might like to visit, it deals with the K7S5A, and a few others.

http://www.amdmb.com/index.php

good luck

zappa